tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post115835714552332930..comments2024-03-12T04:51:46.468-05:00Comments on Blue Gal: Sneaking out of anonymity for an important post.Fran / Blue Galhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18293627981248346055noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158523063953662572006-09-17T14:57:00.000-05:002006-09-17T14:57:00.000-05:00Okay. I give. You win.It's been fun.Okay. I give. You win.<BR/><BR/>It's been fun.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158503711358679712006-09-17T09:35:00.000-05:002006-09-17T09:35:00.000-05:00Sorry I is LATE to the party...but I was bizee wri...Sorry I is LATE to the party...but I was bizee writing up <A HREF="http://karenmcl.blogspot.com/2006/09/cleanliness-is-next-to_17.html" REL="nofollow">a postie</A> on this <A HREF="http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html" REL="nofollow">NEW research</A> indicating more Religiosity equate more Dysfunctionality in society:<BR/><BR/><EM>"For this study’s purpose, “dysfunctionality” is defined by such indicators of poor societal health as homicide, suicide, low life expectancy, STD infection, abortion, early pregnancy, and high childhood mortality (under five-years old). Religiosity is measured by biblical literalism, frequency of prayer and service attendance, as well as absolute belief in a creator in terms of ardency, conservatism, and activities."</EM><BR/><BR/>and the U.S. tops the Charts!Karen McLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09721731853548537686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158503526418809382006-09-17T09:32:00.000-05:002006-09-17T09:32:00.000-05:00But please don't base American foreign and particu...But please don't base American foreign and particularly Middle East policy on your hypotheses. For one thing, you're giving me the creeps. And secondly, if you are wrong by a few thousand years, give or take, we're screwed anyway.<BR/><BR/>that, has been my thoughts AND my fear for some time now.<BR/><BR/>me, i agree that there are many paths in life choose that which fullfills and comforts you and helps you to be a better human being and let others believe or not as they choose.<BR/><BR/>with the current crop of people in power now, i think we are screwed.Sherry Pasquarellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06107407102753464356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158469076451562652006-09-16T23:57:00.001-05:002006-09-16T23:57:00.001-05:00To pray is to be "insane," remember?Anyway, hope y...To pray is to be "insane," remember?<BR/><BR/>Anyway, hope you enjoyed the symphony. Me? I'm off to bed. Got to get up early, to go to Meeting.<BR/><BR/>Peace, all. I'm done here.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158469058370704312006-09-16T23:57:00.000-05:002006-09-16T23:57:00.000-05:00Welcome back from the symphony, Blue Gal. Well sa...Welcome back from the symphony, Blue Gal. Well said. Hey guys, remember to vote in November.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158467576951881762006-09-16T23:32:00.000-05:002006-09-16T23:32:00.000-05:00Wow. I just got back from symphony and you guys h...Wow. I just got back from symphony and you guys have been busy. Yeah, I think my original point was that Bush is using some apocalyptic vision he has as a justification, most importantly and most dangerously in his OWN MIND, for his "war on terror" and his interrogation policies. I think that is askin' for trouble. <BR/><BR/>If you or anyone else thinks the End Times are near, good for you. Get rid of the cable box, the ipod, the second and third car, the health club membership, etc. etc. and detach from the material things of this world and prepare for the second, third, whatever, coming. I don't know much about the apocalypse but I suspect it will require a separation from many material comforts we take for granted. <BR/><BR/>But please don't base American foreign and particularly Middle East policy on your hypotheses. For one thing, you're giving me the creeps. And secondly, if you are wrong by a few thousand years, give or take, we're screwed anyway.<BR/><BR/>Let's close this thread with a little ecumencial prayer.. oops. Nevermind.Fran / Blue Galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18293627981248346055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158465311143971572006-09-16T22:55:00.000-05:002006-09-16T22:55:00.000-05:00And we Quakers are all "insane," by the way. Afte...And we Quakers are <I>all</I> "insane," by the way. After all, we sit in a big room in total silence and wait for God to speak to us. How "crazy" is that?QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158464979661624202006-09-16T22:49:00.000-05:002006-09-16T22:49:00.000-05:00the more I study it, the more it occurs to me to b...<I>the more I study it, the more it occurs to me to believe that religion is a form of insanity.</I><BR/><BR/><I>insanity. As in; not mentally competent, disconected from reality, persuit of unreasonable goals, attachment to grandiose fantasies, disreguard for the wellfare of the "other". Ring any bells?</I><BR/><BR/><I>My original comment as that the more I see of religion(organized variety)the more it seems like a form of insanity.</I><BR/><BR/>So I got that part right.<BR/><BR/><I>To be swept up in this dance of illusions is a form of insanity. <B>In my humble(not very) opinion organized religion is a giant scam, a con. That includes all of them (that I have experienced)</B>.</I><BR/><BR/>So which part about being "miffed" did I get wrong again? You compared being religious, or subscribing to religion, as a form of insanity. That's what, if anything, has me "miffed." You throw words like "insanity" about as if you actually seem to know what it means.<BR/><BR/>I'm not really miffed, by the way. And I think I have a grip. I know exactly where you're coming from. Been there, done that.<BR/><BR/>Yes, people in power, throughout history, have hijacked religion in order to gain and keep that power. They've hijacked a lot of other things, including nationalism, patriotism, flags, love of one's mother, music, nice uniforms, poetry, and the color blue. Are all of those things symptoms of "insanity"?<BR/><BR/>And, with all due respect, organic, when someone says that belief in an organized religion is akin to "insanity," I think I have a right to ask questions. One, what specifically do you mean, and two, what do you mean when you misuse a word like "insanity," which in this culture is so over-used and so obviously misunderstood?<BR/><BR/>And the comment about spelling was a cheap shot, for which I sincerely apologize.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158455623001853572006-09-16T20:13:00.000-05:002006-09-16T20:13:00.000-05:00I forgot to mention, I signed the petition.'GrainI forgot to mention, I signed the petition.<BR/><BR/>'GrainTengrainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12410138967115119480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158455462129466152006-09-16T20:11:00.000-05:002006-09-16T20:11:00.000-05:00Blue Gal - I'm no theologan (the explanation given...Blue Gal - I'm no theologan (the explanation given me for the miracle of the Virgan Birth was that "Women in occupied countries often find themselves in trouble.")<BR/><BR/>I did accidentally go to a Christian Summer Camp when I was in Jr. High. Let's just say it did not take (I'm not sure when statutes expire on these things), but I know for a fact that particular camp no longer has co-ed swimming.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>TengrainTengrainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12410138967115119480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158452759337280882006-09-16T19:25:00.000-05:002006-09-16T19:25:00.000-05:00Quakerdave; You seem miffed at me for "dismissing"...Quakerdave; You seem miffed at me for "dismissing" your religion. You have put the word lunatic in my mouth, accused me of shoving, name calling, and saying that a people of a particular faith are insane.(and being a bad speller)<BR/>Get a grip!<BR/>My original comment as that the more I see of religion(organized variety)the more it seems like a form of insanity. (I actually really appreciate Quakers even the insane ones ;) ) I have explaned that it is hypocrisy, cruelty, selfishness, deceit, greed, and all the other things done in the name of religion (organized variety) that disturbs me. How is it that the "good" religious people allow the "bad" ones too hi-jack the process? My answer: it's in the design. People like the Bush family and Dobson on back into ancient history have used religion in a disingenuous way to promote their own agendas. Playing along with this is a failure to recognize reality, and yet much of America stumbles along behind the process in a fog of placid confusion. How else could Bush even get close to re-elected. <BR/>"Foolme once--ahh but, fool me----, ahh, don't get fooled again!"<BR/>When I get to Canada, I'll invite you for a visit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158450117756529032006-09-16T18:41:00.000-05:002006-09-16T18:41:00.000-05:00I think that Quaker Dave has brought the discussio...I think that Quaker Dave has brought the discussion back to what it was about in the first place, the danger that GWB and his compatriots are currently presenting to the American public (and others who might venture across the border, or be picked up in foreign countries). I have difficulty believing that GWB is a Christian, but I don't think that is really the point. I do think that "religiosity" is being used as a cover for this American administration's actions aimed (like a weapon) in the direction of ever greater control and power, for themselves. Your next election is just over 50 days away. As Cap'n Dyke said on her blog: Vote. The extremists do, almost all the time. A heated discussion about religion, or spirituality, is understandable. However, like good photographers, we need to focus down. We can't afford to go off on tangents-- not now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158448606021882002006-09-16T18:16:00.000-05:002006-09-16T18:16:00.000-05:00Oh, and a final thought: In my Meeting, "God" need...Oh, and a final thought: In my Meeting, "God" needs paper money because prayer alone doesn't keep the heater working or the lights on.<BR/><BR/>Just like it - supposedly - doesn't help amputees, I guess. Sheesh. I'm done.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158447332556122112006-09-16T17:55:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:55:00.000-05:00*construction*Two points off for spelling. Sorry....*construction*<BR/><BR/>Two points off for spelling. Sorry.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158447174080555332006-09-16T17:52:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:52:00.000-05:00Ideal social consruction: "Love thy neighbor."How...Ideal social consruction: <BR/><BR/>"Love thy neighbor."<BR/><BR/>How's that? Work for ya?QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158447062042314122006-09-16T17:51:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:51:00.000-05:00OF COURSE I would vote for an atheist! For crying...OF COURSE I would vote for an atheist! For crying out loud... I really don't care whether a person espouses a particular religion or not. If you think that's where I'm coming from, you have not been paying attention. And I do NOT believe that a person who says s/he is an atheist or an agnostic or whatever should be persecuted or ostracized. Again, if that's what you think I'm saying, you're not listening. it would also violate MY faith to do so! That would be, like, sooo unQuakerly, dude.<BR/><BR/>After being raised in the United Methodist Church, I spent twenty years claiming I was a "spiritual person" who was basically an agnostic. That changed, for reasons I will not discuss here. (I have my own blog for that.) I would NEVER advocate discrimination against a non-believer (or whatever term you want to use).<BR/><BR/>What I have a problem with would include 1) people like Mr. Bush, and radical Islamists, who are hypocrites and who use religion as an excuse to do real harm in the world; 2) people who "have no religion" and who real free to dismiss (at best) those who do as lunatics (as I think was done here) without taking the time to actually find out who they are or what they stand for. <BR/><BR/>What would be my ideal social construct? How about a society based on human rights, human decency, and basic human compassion? I think those are the hallmarks of all the world's great religions, and most other folks would go along with them as well.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158446971346480292006-09-16T17:49:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:49:00.000-05:00Thank god, even though I'm an atheist, there's sti...Thank god, even though I'm an atheist, there's still people like you.Sirkowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14192526669244545867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158446482151243082006-09-16T17:41:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:41:00.000-05:00"Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" Lovely. Nice to s..."Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" Lovely. Nice to see we're moving forward with the level of dialogue here.<BR/><BR/>The web page cited says it all: The Bible was written by men, who existed in a sexist society. And "God" didn't say anything: the Bible is the "inspired word" of God, written by (male) humans, unless you are a biblical literalist. I'm not one of those, btw.<BR/><BR/>Newsflash: So we knew that. They - the folks who wrote the Bible -also said it was okay to own slaves and they also believed they had the right to murder their children if they displeased them. Again, only fundamentalists and literalists believe this.<BR/><BR/>Jesus spoke in the language of someone who was raised in that same culture. And we also know that it's not as if someone was sitting next to him taking notes. The Bible we have today was written many years after Jesus's death.<BR/><BR/>Hello. We knew that, too.<BR/><BR/>The name of the blog that espouses this "news" also says a lot about what's going on here. So you really don't to dig much deeper than that.<BR/><BR/>This actually addresses one of the previous thread points: Some organized religions have actually managed - I know this is hard for some of us to wrap our brains around, so stay with me - to MOVE BEYOND the literal words of the Bible to the BIGGER ISSUES dealt with therein. While some see the (carefully selected) texts of the Bible as being sexist, some organized faiths - the human institutions dedicated to the celebration of religious faith -have either stayed put in the second century AD or have grown and moved along with human progress. I can speak as someone who was raised in a faith that still needs to "grow up" in this department, and as a person who now subscribes to a faith which has a one of its four core beliefs a testimony of equality, which states that all human beings are the same in the heart of God.<BR/><BR/>Yes. All fundamentalists are scary. Muslim, Christian, what have you. That includes the radical anti-religionists as well, I think, because they seem to be just as closed-minded.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158446082159096192006-09-16T17:34:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:34:00.000-05:00Quakerdave; What would be your ideal social constr...Quakerdave; What would be your ideal social construction? Could a non believer participate and not be ostracized or persecuted for their non belief in your ideal world? Could an atheist be president? Would you vote for an atheist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158444833820662022006-09-16T17:13:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:13:00.000-05:00What keeps me up at nights is the thought of a cre...What keeps me up at nights is the thought of a crew of Evangelical Fundamentalists from the Air Force Academy getting themselves the keys to a Stealth Bomber, loaded with live nukes, thinking that they're on a 'mission from God' and then acting on it, with no one to stop them, because well, their entire Chain-of-Command subscribes to the same delusion.<BR/><BR/>Much scarier stuff than 19 engineering students stealing somebody elses airplanes and flying them into some buildings.<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to try and convert you from your beliefs Blue Gal but as a self-described Christian woman here's something you may want to consider regarding God's sexism:<BR/><BR/>http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god15.htm<BR/><BR/>It's challenging, I know, as is this passage on how God gets off on slavery:<BR/><BR/>http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god13.htm<BR/><BR/>Sorry, since Rosie O'Donnell got so widely mocked for saying that radical Christianity can be harmful to one's health, and being that a lot of justification for slavery in America by its practitioners came from The Holy Bible I have a hard time letting Rosie's detractors get a pass just because they put on looks of shock and indignation.Nyc Labretšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585848203561443229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158444568602889792006-09-16T17:09:00.000-05:002006-09-16T17:09:00.000-05:00What I hope that means, RevPhat, is that the decid...What I hope that means, RevPhat, is that the decider isn't going to get quite the Awakening he had in mind...QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158443285941730022006-09-16T16:48:00.000-05:002006-09-16T16:48:00.000-05:00Do not be afraid, be joyful...if what our theologi...Do not be afraid, be joyful...if what our theologian-in-chief says is true - that we are on the verge of another great awakening - trust in the Holy Spirit. Even nonchristians know this to be true: Jesus is the prince of peace. His was the way of nonviolence. This will be the mark of any true revival. And Lord knows we need peace.<BR/><BR/>My denomination was birthed from the second great awakening: the christian church (disciples of christ). We describe ourselves as a "people of the table" and have a free and open table for anyone. In my congregation, we add no qualifiers. This table is made all the more authentic by the free and open table we provide every Saturday evening for anyone who is hungry. We serve over 80 guests each week with the help of five other local congregations.<BR/><BR/>This is christianity at its best. And we need more of it.RevPhathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12597801109328704112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158442215802966272006-09-16T16:30:00.000-05:002006-09-16T16:30:00.000-05:00I am a pretty religious Pagan, and I cannot argue ...I am a pretty religious Pagan, and I cannot argue with you, Blue Gal. I don't proslytize either. I really think that's what we need less of, proslytizing, I mean, not people who believe in the teachings of their particular religion. <BR/><BR/>I think if those of us who believe in something actually did what our religion taught, and less time harrassing other religions about being wrong; the better off we would be. For those folks who do not believe in "supernatural" things, perhaps they should do what they think is right, and leave those of us who do alone.<BR/>Great post, Blue Gal. Thank you.Pepperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09893044552078225374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158441579369114772006-09-16T16:19:00.000-05:002006-09-16T16:19:00.000-05:00I believe that we each must walk our own path and ...<I>I believe that we each must walk our own path and discover our own truth. Perhaps we can walk the same path in different ways or at different times. Perhaps you will take the path that winds through the valley and that I will take the path that climbs up the mountain side. My path is not “better” nor is yours.</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe you should have said that before saying that people who suscribe to a particular faith are insane.<BR/><BR/>You can believe that organized religion is a scam if you want to. If that's the case, it's a con that has changed my life for the better. I believe that religious institutions can help change the world for the better. I look to my Quaker forebearers who were abolitionists and who supported women's rights and who opposed the evil of war, on the basis of their RELIGIOUS beliefs, first and foremost. I look at the Black church which gave us (all) the civil rights movement. I look to the faith of religiously-inspired leaders such as Gandhi and the Dalai Lama.<BR/><BR/>And I stand by what I said before. Yes, we can all get "there" by different paths. What we shouldn't be doing is shoving each other out of the way on the way there.QuakerDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727729821155579518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8983386.post-1158440121448228482006-09-16T15:55:00.000-05:002006-09-16T15:55:00.000-05:00Can we just say that there are good and bad people...Can we just say that there are good and bad people in all cultures, societies and religions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com