Tuesday, September 25

A new found respect for Janeane

BTW? Oy. Someone needs to tap Bill Maher in the head with a menorah...shilling for Israel is so 1968. But I think the fact that Janeane can say what she said, and Chris Hedges in Adbusters is doing the same, shows a tipping point in this so-called debate.


  1. I disagree with what she says: I think a large segment of the Israeli public is actually far more right-wing than the government. I mean, those "Death to Arabs" slogans are everywhere, on walls and as comments on websites.

  2. it's about time, wether i agree with anyone or not, that we stand behing the ideal of this country. that we are a free people and should not be censored or be afraid to express those views.

    the dialogue she started was much more in depth than it would have been had she not spoken out.

  3. There certainly is a very large segment of American Jews that are upset at the approach (or lack of one) to the peace process of the hard right in Israel.

    I don't know much about the internal politics of Israel, but, since Rabin, each PM seems to out right wing the previous one.

    By the way something, I love Jeneane's tats.

  4. Yossi, I get the impression that Israel has a vigorous component to their political life that is rightist (not just right-wing)....

    However, I don't think that is the whole story, and in many ways their Liberal Democracy and tendency to open debate is far more florid than our own.

    Israel is at root a Liberal Democratic nation..... that also wants to remain a Jewish nation which causes considerable tension.

    It seems that many potential compromises have been on the brink of success until the issue of "right of return" comes into play. Israel is faced then with the prospect of an Arab flood of returnees that would inevitably impact the political demographic....ironically at root an immigration issue.

    Of course there are layers upon layers of concerns, not the least of which is the fact that there are players on all sides (including those in the U.S.) that have no interest in seeing a fair Israeli-Palestinian solution.... are in fact exploiting and profiting from an apparently intractable situation.

    There is of course a long history with roots tapped into the European Colonial era, watered by antisemitism.

    Garafolo's insights are complex as well..... at once claiming to be a world citizen, she is in my opinion effectively arguing for an objective perspective on the issue from the standpoint of American sovereignty and independence.

    Beware of intricate foreign entanglements.....

    I've often wondered if our current administration is not in effect an agent of a foreign government..... their trade policies, economics and wars seem to benefit everybody BUT the American People.

  5. Station Agent you crack me up.

  6. Oh, wait you said TATS, as in tattoos. Nevermind.

  7. On the political spectrum that Canadians use,Bill Maher would be considered a member of the faction of moderate reaction-a Tory!

  8. Brothers in Arms

    "I can forgive [the Palestinians] for killing my sons, but I cannot forgive them for making my sons into killers," Golda Meir

  9. Janeane's taste in politics, impeccable. In tattoos, not so much.

    It goes without saying that the whole Palestinian versus Israel conundrum is so complex that it doesn't lend itself to easy answers. Every time I state a firm position, I find a compelling contradictory viewpoint.

  10. yup, i saw this episode of bill maher the other day and janeane was awesome. the rest didn't get to say too much... including bill.

  11. Anonymous1:03 PM

    You can the audio-only version of the whole show for free at iTunes and I suggest that you might do that since it sets up some context.

    First, she's reacting to comments Michael Scheuer made just prior to this clip. I've heard what the man said and I did not understand a word of it. His end of the interview came off like an endless parade of half-finished aphorisms.

    Also is it just me or does Bill M. contradict himself by the end of the conversation?

  12. She does look like a one percenter with those tats....

  13. I find Garofalo to be a bit hit or miss, but she sounds pretty sensible here.

  14. I've been thinking and thinking and thinking about this piece, and here's what I can't get over: you mean, people actually spend their precious minutes of life WATCHING this tripe? Like, on purpose?


  15. Notsoccer mom took the words right out of my mouth. I regularly watch Maher's program, and Janeane was terrific.

    BG if you would like to see it I can send you a copy (yes, it's still on my DVR).


  16. One of the things that Salmon Rushdie says and I have heard other places and seems to be right to me is that Al-Qaeda has no interest in the Palestinian people and so a solution to the Israeli issue does not affect Al-Qaeda one bit. Also, from my understanding of Islam, Jerusalem is the third most holy city and so no it is not as important to the Arab people as the MSM tells us. For Christians it is considered the most holy city and the same is true for the Jews, but Mecca and Medina are both much more important and holy to the Islamic religion. Israel is an immigration issue as Ghost points out and a very complex issue that needs a solution and not one that supports either the Israelis or the Palestinians and as a Jew and a human this is important to me.

  17. Ghost Dansing said: "Israel is at root a Liberal Democratic nation..... that also wants to remain a Jewish nation which causes considerable tension." I agree that Israel has liberal-democratic elements, but the way I see it, they are much weaker than the Jewish element - which, in Israel, is anything but democratic or liberal.

  18. Yossi, without saying which element is weaker or stronger I think we are essentially saying the same thing.

    To support my contention that Israel is essentially a Liberal Democracy, I point out that the governmental structure is Liberal and Democratic as opposed to authoritarian Theocratic.

    There are certainly rabid Zionists that would like nothing better than to see a simple Jewish Theocracy.... I think they are the rightist elements that I spoke of and one would find them on the far-right balcony of Likud, or completely to the right of Likud.

    The continued commitment to a Jewish State rooted in the entire Zionist concept which in turn was rooted in the European diaspora during the Colonial period, historically supported by both devout European Jews and antisemitic elements conspire to prevent secular Church-State separation as practiced in America, and a resolution to the problem of Palestinian displacement at the creation of the Israeli State itself.

    I am neither pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian.... both sides have made plenty bad choices historically.

    I like what Israel has become and is becoming better than what I see in store for the Palestinians if they continue to embrace Hamas and Islamic extremist ideologies.

    Israel represents the promise of Liberal Democracy in the Middle East.... Palestine would do well to emulate Israeli-style Liberal governance lest it become Islamofascist.

    The "right of return" issue is a hard nut for the Israelis to crack as long as it hangs on white-knuckled to the Theocratic vestige of State religion.... although, given the history, one can understand why this would be an important symbolic point within the Israeli culture and politics.

    Somewhere creativity and transcendence of the past is necessary for both sides.... all sides to resolve their issues.


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